Pronto Discrete Codes problem

[Eddie]

Hello there.

I recently purchased a USB-UIRT and I am very pleased with it's capabilities.

However, I am having a slight problem with importing discrete pronto codes (found from various CCF files on remotecentral.com).

These discrete codes are very important for macros, as they switch my minidisc deck on OR off, but not toggle between them (i.e. If my MD player was already on, and then I transmit the discrete POWER ON code, it would not do anything - whereas a click on the power button on my remote would switch it off - as it is toggling between the two states).

Having followed the import procedure, the POWER OFF code works, but not the POWER ON code :-/
Any ideas why? I've tried 3 different codes (which I assume to be correct - why would someone have it in their CCF file if it doesn't work?). The Power Off code works from all three files, but not the Power On codes.

They are listed below, along with their imported equivalents:

ON
0000 0067 0000 000d 0060 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 03f6
R00006018181830183018301818183018181830183018301830181883F6
OFF
0000 0067 0000 000d 0060 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 03f6
R00006018301830183018301818183018181830183018301830181883F6

ON
0000 0067 0000 000d 0061 0018 0019 0018 0031 0017 0031 0017 0031 0017 0019 0017 0031 0017 0019 0018 0031 0017 0031 0017 0031 0017 0031 0017 0019 03ab
R00006118191831173117311719173117191831173117311731171983AB
OFF
0000 0067 0000 000d 0061 0018 0031 0017 0031 0017 0031 0017 0031 0017 0019 0018 0031 0017 0019 0017 0031 0017 0031 0017 0031 0017 0031 0017 0019 0394
R0000611831173117311731171918311719173117311731173117198394

ON
0000 0067 0000 000d 0060 0019 0018 0019 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0019 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 03ac
R00006019181930183018301818183018181930183018301830181883AC
OFF
0000 0067 0000 000d 0060 0019 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0019 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0395
R0000601930183018301830181819301818183018301830183018188395

Any help you could give me?

Thanks,

Eddie

[jrhees]

From what I can tell, these 3 sets of codes are the same (with the exception of minor timing differences).

I have no idea why the OFF code works and not the ON code, but here are some ideas:

1) The OFF code might be universal (system OFF) while the ON code is for a specific piece of equipment.

2) The ON code simply is no good, but it would seem strange to see it duplicated in different CCF's.

3) The ON code needs to be transmitted for a longer or shorter period -- in which case you'll want to try cranking up or down the repeat value.

My bet is on #1.

-Jon

[Eddie]

From what I can tell, these 3 sets of codes are the same (with the exception of minor timing differences).

I have no idea why the OFF code works and not the ON code, but here are some ideas:

1) The OFF code might be universal (system OFF) while the ON code is for a specific piece of equipment.

2) The ON code simply is no good, but it would seem strange to see it duplicated in different CCF's.

3) The ON code needs to be transmitted for a longer or shorter period -- in which case you'll want to try cranking up or down the repeat value.

My bet is on #1.

-Jon

Thanks for your reply Jon.

I seem to have gotten a little further in my experimentation.

It seems that all the above codes work if I switch my MD deck off, then back on again using my original remote (or transmitting the "toggle power" code twice), and then the power on code works.

However, as you can imagine that is of no-use to me. Do you have any idea what's causing this?

I also have tried other Sony MD deck CCF files (not necessarily pertaining to my exact model) with the same results.

I also have a Sony receiver underneath my deck, which is not affected by the OFF code, so I doubt it is #1.

I've fiddled with the repeat value as described in #3, yet that doesn't seem to do anything either, even when cranking it up to a stupidly high value.

Does this information shed any more light?

Eddie

[jrhees]

You may be running into a 'toggle parity bit' issue. Some equipment uses a remote that toglles a bit between 1 and 0 on every successive button-press of the remote. Try this:

1. Transmit the OFF command to turn you MD deck off.
2. Instead of pushing your remote's power button twice, press some OTHER button ONCE on the remote (like Play/Stop/etc).
3. Transmit the ON command and see if the MD Deck responds.

Also try the above sequence but press the play/stop button in step #2 twice.

Pronto users who run into issues like this will often create a pronto 'macro' for each button. The macro will essentially transmit a dummy button (one that doesn't have an effect) after each normal button-press.

On the other hand, the problem *may not* be a toggle bit, since you don't have issues with the 'OFF' code...?

-Jon

[Eddie]

Hello jon,

Thanks once again for your reply.

I came across this parity bit issue whilst doing my searching on "repeating" a command - and thought that it _might_ be what I'm suffering from.

However, through a bit of testing, I'm sure it can't be. Here's what I tried:

1stly - Power Off. Stop. Power On. Nothing.
2ndly - Power Off. Stop. Stop. Power On. Nothing again.
3rdly - Power Off. Stop. Stop. Stop. Power On. Still nothing.

*sigh*.

I'm truly lost now. It definitely works when:

- Toggle On. Toggle Off. Discrete Power On.
- Toggle On. Toggle Off. Stop. Discrete Power On.
- Toggle On. Toggle Off. Stop. Stop. Power On.

But strangely.. not when I press Stop three times in between.

I'm *completely* lost now >_<

Eddie

[jrhees]

Eddie,

Since you don't have access to the discrete On/OFF codes on your remote (and therefore cannot 'learn' them) could you LEARN your power toggle button twice in a row (take care not to press any buttons in between the two learn's) and post the results of each learn? That way we can see if parity is happening.

-Jon

[Eddie]

Hello Jon,

You are right in that I must rely on Pronto codes to get the discrete power functionality, as I do not have a remote which I can learn from.

I've learnt the power toggle button 5 times, pretty much consecutively:
R01D460193019181930191819301918191819301930193019301918
R01D460193019181930191819301918191819301930193019301918
R01D460193019181930191819301918191819301930183019301918
R01D460193019181930191819301918191819301930193019301918
R01D460193019181930191819301918191819301930193019301818

The only differences I can spot are highlighted, and my guess is that they only control the frequency or some other insignificant function.

The learnt toggle code broadcast using USB UIRT also sucessfully and consistently toggles the power, whether I switch it on/off using the remote, and then broadcast the code, the result is always as expected.

So in conclusion, it can't be a parity bit. What else could it possibly be though!?!

Eddie

[Eddie]

On another somewhat related note, the discrete power codes work perfectly for my only other piece of equipment - a Sony receiver, though.

Eddie

[jrhees]

You're right -- the 5 learnt codes are basically the same -- no parity. Two more thoughts:

1. The MD player has some sort of logic that simply does not allow the discrete codes to be used one after another...why?

2. The MD player needs some extra time after being turned off before it can be turned on again discretely...why?

I'm grasping at straws now. I would suggest (if you haven't already done so) searching the remotecentral.com forums for any mention of strangeness with the MD player.

-Jon

[Eddie]

You're right -- the 5 learnt codes are basically the same -- no parity. Two more thoughts:

1. The MD player has some sort of logic that simply does not allow the discrete codes to be used one after another...why?

2. The MD player needs some extra time after being turned off before it can be turned on again discretely...why?

I'm grasping at straws now. I would suggest (if you haven't already done so) searching the remotecentral.com forums for any mention of strangeness with the MD player.

-Jon

A very strange case we have here :-/

The thing is, if I toggle the power on and back off again, I can transmit discrete power on and power off codes consecutively for as long as I like, and it will work, only within a certain time period though. If I pause for a few seconds, then the power on code won't work.

Strange that, and there isn't any possible reason I can think of that would justify adding extra logic to do that...

I'll check the remotecentral.com forums - though they are *horrible* to trawl through.

Thanks jon,

Eddie